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December 28, 2008

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Comments

Kenneth J.

I'm guessing you had a little time between the hymns and special music this morning to think about such things...

Austin

That being said, and agreed upon, what are we going to do about it? I have ideas, but I'm asking for yours.

MR

Rick,

Your final paragraph indicates you will have a bit more to say later. I take it that this means you needed to pause in order to reload your shotgun!

On a serious note, in seminary I noticed many (I think most) students came from relatively small churches. Of course small churches outnumber larger churches, so this shouldn't surprise anyone. In terms of the 10,000 hours, perhaps many of these students were, in fact, getting some "church" training before leaving home.

I learned recently that Hebrew culture emphasized the home being the center of religious instruction. If we assume the early church took their cue from the Apostles, who were steeped in Hebrew culture, it is not a stretch to assume that the early church also found the home to be a major source of religious instruction.

In other words, the parental role (especially that of the father) was to raise up a child in the way he or she should go.

It is interesting that today’s Christian views the church as the primary vehicle for religious instruction. Most parents that I have met do not seamlessly integrate religious teaching into every aspect of their lives (discipleship). Thus, instead of getting 10s of thousands of hours of religious instruction, our young are only getting 3-5 hours a week – while they are at church. And, if baseball season is in session some of these will not be getting close to 5 hours a week.

I believe discipleship is the missing component in most Baptist churches today. Discipleship is not a program or a book study that can be purchased at Lifeway. Discipleship is seeking to make your life a carbon copy of the Master’s own life. Discipleship is simply not taught today. Discipleship is getting 10,000 hours of training done in less than two years, when discipleship is defined biblically.

Instead of bring the best of who we could be into our churches (families who live faith in Christ seeking an extension of their home life and working to mutually seek a pastor who will teach them Christ's teachings in word and deed), we bring whatever fills the vacuum -- politics, petty issues, etc.

So, most often, what is learned in churches little represents biblical Christianity. It does, however, represent a good approximation of cultural Christianity, if that is what one is seeking. And ultimately, Rick, isn’t cultural Christianity (Texas style) what has really got you worked up?

MR

B Frank

Maybe, as a modern Hebrew and professor of secular Education once mentioned to Momma, a continuing student as teacher in Public Education, we should close a few doors, centralize assembly and charge to get in, with a few more Deacons per capita than currently exist it just might work ... or is that just judaizing and too anti-Baptist?

RobeFRe

MR

RobeFRe,

I actually have a lot of hope and confidence in Baptist people. And, I think, smaller congregations offer more opportunity for accountability, which is a good thing. I definitely would not be a proponent of what you mention above -- in fact quite the opposite.

I sense you are suggesting something above, but I would not with to assume your meaning? Can you clarify your thoughts for me? I would be happy to respond in kind.

Sincerely,

MR

MR

I meant "wish" to assume. Sorry.

MR

RobeFre

MR

The suggestion is one I heard in the seventies through my mom from a member of another faith, perhaps offered in jest, but seeming to have some rationale, whether divine or not, or effectual.

I do not have answers for Dr Davis' statement of facts which may be more rhetorical than we want to believe. The condition of the church has been faltering and dying frequently(cyclically?) since its inception and the times it was flourishing were often pro/consequent or even contemporaneous to events which in retrospect may not have been judged very Christian by there commonly observed character. In, brevity, I will say that in my own life I have sometimes become so enamoured with my own importance after experiencing what I can only describe as something at least akin to what I understand koinonea to be, that I know there needs to be a touchstone--something real, social, communicative and constant for me to be drawn back down to the understanding that God really doesn't need me--He loves me and wants to love others through me. Sometimes the small churches seem to be formed on a whim of rebellion from tradition or existing control and just their mere existance places a draw on human resources such as those so elegantly and poignantly mentioned as stressed and declining by the good Dr Davis.
In the timbre of Adam Smith--some things just need to go--not all of them but some of them.
I am a lay member of a church, which for nearly ten years now has struggled with declining membership which had reached a high of some 250, and frailed pastorage, yet I love it and the challenge God has led me to there to help keep people seeing the opportunities for service and hopefully instilling in them the discipline of Christian faith in the gface(sic) of those challenges--yet if we just had a few more willing and able members and a bit more of a mind to use the resources availbable to us from such failing umbrella entities as we are all so familiar then we could return to the good old days of political intrigue and public squabbling to which we were so drawn--

as I said, "for brevity's sake!" }8~)

B Frank

MR

OK. Thanks.

MR

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